Online Meeting Notes - 27th November 2025
Chair - E Baker
Attendees
Melanie Alder, Jeremy Percy, Ashley Mullenger, John Balls, Calum Greenhalgh, George Lamplough, Paul Verrill, Nicola White, Carl Davies, Martin Yorwarth, Andy Read, Adrian Bartlett, David Guy, Becki Jarvis, Magnus Johnson, Jemma Jewkes, Richard Stride, Kim Matthews.
Meeting notes
An un-edited transcript of the meeting is provided at the bottom of this note.
Introductions
All attendees took turns to introduce themselves and say what they wanted from this network.
The responses in the room were that the small-scale-inshore fleet needed a more cohesive voice because it was struggling around the country and action was needed to ensure it can survive. Comments were around the following themes:
• The fleet needs to be sustainable, financially viable, profitable.
• The fleet needed a voice that could ‘get to the top’ and speak at the same level as the NFFO.
• A positive image of the fleet is needed as a counter to press such as the film Ocean.
• Young entrants need encouraging and supporting.
• Fleet needs to be able to diversify to survive.
• In some areas there are a lack of fish and too much effort.
Regarding the set-up of a network
It was agreed that a coordinator was required and most agreed that they would need to be paid.
It was suggested and generally accepted that a clear governance structure was essential.
It was suggested that someone could be brought in in the short term to set up the structure before applying for funds.
It was agreed that a steering group would be required and regional representatives.
A rotating chair position was suggested.
Agreed a clear single point for comms would be needed.
The question around what a paid coordinator would do on a day to day basis was raised.
The group were informed by the Chair that Esmee Fairbairn could potentially fund the coordinator.
Support from eNGOs was suggested by some but also cautioned against by others.
The Chair noted that NGO involvement had already been discussed at previous meetings and has the potential to lead to fishermen not wishing to be involved.
It was noted that there should not be an inshore / offshore divide and the inshore relied on the infrastructure set up for bigger boats.
Steering Group
The following volunteered to be part of a steering group but also stated that they may have time constraints and could not necessarily attend all meetings.
Jeremy Percy; Adrian Bartlett; Martin Yorwarth; George Lamplough; Richard Stride; John Balls; Simon Bywater; Carl Davies, Nicola White.
If you would like to join or be taken off the steering group please let me know.
The Chair noted that it would be natural for the steering group to be somewhat fluid initially.
Next steps
The steering committee is to meet with Esmee Fairbairn to discuss how funding could be provided to support a coordinator role. Note that there is no guarantee of funding. An application to Esmee still has to be made but first the structure needs to be discussed. Esmee also need to be convinced that there is cohesive desire for this and agreed understanding of how it can develop.
Transcript
27 November 2025, 05:02pm
Edward Baker started transcription
Jeremy Percy 0:03
She has to eat.
Edward Baker 0:04
Yeah.
Right then.
What is that? So welcome. Thanks for joining. Appreciate it's time out of everyone's lives. I will try and as I said in my e-mail, try and keep everything as succinct as possible so that we can sort of like make some progress.
I I sent around an agenda and what I've suggested we do is just go around the room, quickly introduce our shelves and say what it is that we hope to get from. I guess this meeting and the network and try and keep that introduction to about a minute.
No more please. AD has offered to be my time keeper, so if you could keep a track on that that would be great. Thank you. And then and then move to some like kind of more open discussion on like what, what do we actually want?
What do you think this network assuming we want a network? What would the structure be? There's lots of different ideas. And then and then what would we want to tackle? How can we gain more support and membership as a as a loose agenda? So I'll kick off. My name's Ed. I work for the Plymouth fishing and Seafood Association.
And the reason I got involved with this idea is because I would like to see the inshore small scale fleet have a seat at the table with Defra, similar to the way the producer organisations have.
Their seat at the table through you cafpo? Yeah, I think there are lots of individual fishermen and small scale organisations out there that don't have their voice sufficiently heard. So that's me. And then I'm just going to go round round the room according to my screen, if that's all right. So first of all, Melanie, nice to meet.
calum 1:43
I.
Edward Baker 2:00
Meet you. Do you want to introduce yourself?
Melanie Alder 2:01
Yeah. Hi. Yeah. Nice to meet everybody. So I'm I'm just curious. I'm a retailer. I'm quite passionate about coastal communities being more self-sufficient and I'm working with the University of Southampton on a coastal communities project.
Jeremy Percy 2:12
Yes.
Melanie Alder 2:17
I did start selling fresh fish from the shop earlier in the summer and found it quite difficult, so I'm just curious. I'm interested to know the challenges and if I can contribute at all.
Edward Baker 2:28
OK. Thank you, ash.
Ash 2:33
Sorry, I was on mute. Hi, I'm Ashley. I'm an independent fisherman. I'm also. I meant to say, and also Nigel's here. So he's listening in. I'm really intrigued to understand what this group might be able to do.
Edward Baker 2:35
No, that's no good.
Ash 2:49
Make a cohesive voice for fishermen across the country that gets us us and our needs. Listen to in.
To our livelihoods.
Edward Baker 3:01
Great. Thank you, John.
John Balls, this is another John.
John Balls 3:09
No. Good afternoon all. Apologies about not having a camera. For whatever reason the camera is not working, but just briefly for me then as far as I'm concerned I've always looked and would like to see a sustainable fishing industry for all those involved in the inshore fishing sector.
And further afield, and also it has to be a viable fishery as well. You know this is not something just solely to keep people at sea. There has to be a earning capacity there as well and.
You know more opportunities. You know, we've been hammered over the years with restrictions, and now they've lifted the caps on the smaller under 10 metre boats.
Realistically, we need to work towards something which is going to make these inshore fishing boats viable.
calum 3:58
Yeah.
JEMMA JEWKES 4:05
And she said that.
John Balls 4:08
You know that that is, that's my words. That is. Thank you.
JEMMA JEWKES 4:08
We meet up there because she said OK.
Edward Baker 4:08
Thanks John.
Yeah.
Thank you. Hi, Gemma. We're just going around the room and I'll. I'll get to you in order. That's all right.
JEMMA JEWKES 4:23
Just keeping my mic on because there's a lot of background noise here, so I just listen in the background.
Edward Baker 4:28
Yeah. If you could maybe turn your mic off. Yeah, cool, Callum.
SHEILA DOWLE 4:35
I have to remind. See, thank you for reminding. So you just.
calum 4:39
Fisherman for 37 odd years, I'd like to get is to stop the small scale fishery collapsing all together and hopefully become a looking for some kind of.
SHEILA DOWLE 4:46
That was.
OK.
Can you?
Your voice, that's.
calum 4:56
I don't know organisation pressure group. Something to to stop us falling into the abyss and like you said before, you know we should be a very profitable business and we're just not.
SHEILA DOWLE 5:02
Be.
Get it done.
Probably people be in the river.
Would that question?
Edward Baker 5:15
Yeah. Makes sense. Thanks, Callum. Jerry.
SHEILA DOWLE 5:17
4.
Jeremy Percy 5:19
Yeah, hello. Thanks for calling. Yeah. So ex fisherman. Something of a history of representation of fisherman was heavily involved in the development and implementation of two original workshops in port and Whitby where we developed I think over 150 priorities.
SHEILA DOWLE 5:21
OK.
Sometimes.
OK.
Jeremy Percy 5:36
The first one from both workshops being a single single voice for the national the English National Insure sector, and here we are still haven't quite got there. The I sit on the I chair the sea fish domestic and export panel. I'm still a senior advisor.
SHEILA DOWLE 5:44
Thank you.
Hot.
Jeremy Percy 5:55
No impact.
Europe Organisation co-author of some of the social science related papers for the InsureFleet, not least the one that illustrates that we've had a 25% loss of vessels over the last 14 or 15 years. And if that doesn't stop, we all know where we're going and this I think is probably the last and best hope to do something about it.
SHEILA DOWLE 5:56
And.
Big process.
Aye.
Umm.
Jeremy Percy 6:16
OK.
SHEILA DOWLE 6:18
Bottom.
Edward Baker 6:18
Thanks, Jerry. George.
SHEILA DOWLE 6:21
OK.
George Lamplough 6:22
Hi all, George lamplow. I'm a member of fishing in the future, I work on the crab and lobster FMP and a little bit with Defra on a one or two Co management projects. I'm I've also got the kind of the distinction in these sort of spheres of being the only deckhand in the room.
SHEILA DOWLE 6:28
OK.
30 minutes.
Right.
George Lamplough 6:41
So I like to try and bring that, you know, perspective along to the table as well. Now with with regards to the Insure Association, what what I would like to see is sort of bringing around changes at the national level that that I can see the benefit of in you know my own local community of Whitby.
SHEILA DOWLE 6:48
Yeah.
I.
Yeah.
Councillor family mark.
Edward Baker 7:01
Thank you. Makes sense. So I don't you. You're clearly not Sheila. Sheila Dowell.
Martin 7:03
Yeah.
SHEILA DOWLE 7:04
Not written.
Yeah, you've probably gathered. I'm not sheeted out, but only on a Saturday on a Sunday. My name is Paul Varrell. I'm a local politician down in Dover in Kent. Although I've got something in common with you, George. My family come from slaves.
Edward Baker 7:13
Yeah.
SHEILA DOWLE 7:26
So hello to you.
George Lamplough 7:28
Well, sorry to disappoint you, but I come from the Isle of Wight originally.
SHEILA DOWLE 7:32
Oh well, never mind. So I'm not far. We're in the middle. Then what? I hope to get from this is one I want to learn more. That's the most important thing. I've always wondered why we got one boat now going out of deal.
George Lamplough 7:34
I.
Yeah.
SHEILA DOWLE 7:49
Who is probably one of the most popular fishermen in the area, who announces on Facebook he's coming back in with fish and they queue round the block. Tour him that there is an obvious need for a good inshore fleet that can actually service the local communities and towns, and I hope from this as a policy.
Position I can help push it forward.
Edward Baker 8:12
Thanks. Thanks very much, Paul. Nicola.
Nicola White 8:19
Hello. Sorry. Eating tea while struggling children. My full time job has actually been a planning officer, but I'm part-time deckhand on day trawlers out brixom, but I also informally, because it's not really.
Edward Baker 8:23
No worries.
Nicola White 8:34
Made a proper body of itself, yet resurrecting fisherman's and Waterman's in Teignmouth, and we've got a couple of welkers day trawler crabbers and insure sand dealing fleet, so I'm feeding back to them what the general chitchat is today and if they want to do anything further or want me to do anything further, I'll do that.
So listening really.
Yeah.
Edward Baker 8:57
Right. Thank you. Appreciate your presence, no.
Oh, babies.
Carl Davies 9:07
Hi, good evening, everybody. Carl Davis, fisherman from across the border, Conway, North Wales, running a ten well, 11 metre catamaran fishing mainly for lobster crab prawn. We also do charter trips as well.
I've I've just I agree with a lot, a lot of people have said so far, but I've just jotted down four things that that perhaps we can discuss and put forward at some point. Young entrance that's obviously a problem for for the.
For the fleet at the moment, sea fish do a for doing a new scheme which maybe you know we can support and look into anecdotal fisherman's data promoting, you know the it's often dismissed or.
Not giving them a value, you know, inclusion in annual assessments and maybe pro rata payment for for time for collecting this data which might help you know the insure fleet survive 3 margins, maybe use of the of the new fisheries grants to help reduce.
Are fixed overheads almost like like a a subsidy each year for, for instance life rafts, higher life jacket service, permit fees, IBMS fees, maybe proposed camera fees, that sort of thing?
Like it almost like an agriculture grant for for the for the fishing industry, and then just justone of the thing. I mean, there's many other things, but using some of this grant this new grant to to to make a film telling the other side of the story.
The other side of the ocean story really, again using, you know, possibly tapping into that grant money, explaining how sustainable and highly regulated are our fisheries in in the UK are, you know, especially including.
Surely that's that's that's it for me for now.
Edward Baker 11:06
Thanks. Qual I really like some of those ideas, Martin.
Martin 11:10
Hello, Ed. Hello, everyone. Yeah, I'm Martin yourworth. I started fishing at 12 years old. I'm 53. I've built up your worst fresh fish with two fishing boats and under 10 and an over 10. I had a smokehouse of fishmongers, 11 farmers markets with 12 staff.
Turning over just under £1,000,000 a year, all from inshore fishing, fishing between Brixham and Lowestoft, I've experienced in pelagic trawling bottom trawling, beaming, long lining, netting fish traps and scalloping high level experience meetings with many fisheries officers.
Meetings with the Commissioner accomplishments international quota straps, swaps, restrictions on fly shooting, good public speaking on the APG and the NGO Circuit and lobbying Parliament.
Medium level many meetings with Defra, many meetings with MMO, many meetings with Ifka's proven track record on fisheries grants and the levelling up Fund was part of the quota management change programme.
Experience with consultations and lobbying MPs and Lords, Grassroots chairman of Whole Life and Fisherman's Association, founder, member and Secretary of the Southern North Sea and Shore Fisherman's Association found a member of the National under 10 metre Fisherman's Association.
Fishing lead in rebuild Britain think tank experience in organising customers and contacting MPs. Legal summoned understanding of the axe fishing industry cases factor time and Ashton Question One judicial review. CIC experience.
I helped set up the New Haven Fishing CIC with a levelling up fund. I'm a member of Reef and a founder member of this group and I can also sing.
Edward Baker 13:11
Brilliant. It's a comprehensive CV. Thanks Martin. Andy Reed.
Andy Read 13:20
It's coming. Here we are. Sorry. Hi, everyone. I'm an ex fisherman and I've I've really got no right to be here, but I've had the same. We've been having the same conversation for 30 years about how does it ensure voice speak power and get power to to listen.
And change things and it's extraordinarily hard. And we've had many of us in this call, have tried this multiple times, but there is still, I think, a crying need for a voice that can that can get straight to the top and and articulate changes and stop some of the stupidity we're seeing for the initial fleet.
How you get there is extraordinarily difficult, but I I really think there's still a crime need for that. The the National Federation and the Scottish Fishermen's Federation will say the right thing, but they're always going to have a divergent of views and the majority of their members aren't going to be affected by a lot of the rules that that can put small boats out of business.
Martin 14:05
Yes.
Yeah.
Andy Read 14:16
So it's how we get that voice and how that voice actually makes a difference in the seat of power. I think that I've been most interested in in hearing ideas about and sort of aiming towards.
Edward Baker 14:30
Thanks, Andy. I appreciate it. Yeah. No, it's all good. And yeah, no. Welcome. Your presence and experience, Andy.
Andy Read 14:31
Finished. Sorry.
Adrian Bartlett 14:41
Adrian Bartlett, retired fisherman of 40 odd years, a little bit earlier than mine, started at 7:00.
But director of the PFSA and also a director of Devon Young Fishers and in me later years I'm just about in a supportive role of all associations and I think what we need from this group is back in the 80s. I think the fishing industry had a bit more of a joined up.
Attitude between all sectors and we've lost that over the years and I think we just need to try to bring that back. Thank you.
Edward Baker 15:16
Thanks very much, David Guy.
Martin 15:18
Yeah.
Yeah.
David Guy 15:30
How's that?
Edward Baker 15:31
Yeah, we can hear you.
David Guy 15:33
All good. Yeah, I'm David Garner, the secretary for the New Haven Fishing Flake High Society and the director for the New Haven Fishing CIC. Spent most of my life at sea. Skipper of the beam Trawler sea folk. Most of the time was on that.
I started when I was quite young. I was about 1415, so I spent most of my life at sea. I work outside of the industry now, but I still do the secretary work for the New Haven Fishing Flake, ice and the CIC will share that work and mainly the Director for that one.
Yeah, I'm just interested really in feedback on to our members and anything that's happening or what's going on, mainly for interest from from our side at the moment.
I went boring with all the details of everything else I've done. I work with grant funding, and I've done school programmes, projects with kids and fish cakes and all Mannerists. We're going to go into all of that.
Edward Baker 16:15
Great, understood.
David Guy 16:27
All good. Just.
Edward Baker 16:27
Thanks, David, Becky.
Becki Jarvis 16:35
Hi everyone, I'm Becky. I'm a marine biologist and commercial fisheries consultant, and I've worked with the Cornish fishing industry since 2019. I think my biggest or one of my biggest concerns in the moment is that our small vessel fleet are being locked in with.
The opinions of the large vessel fleet and that's, you know, got some serious negative effects. One of the things I'd really, really love to see from a group is the same sort of power that some of these NGOs and previous celebrities have managed to pull out of the bag with various.
Push back on things like discards and you know the big thing about trolling at the moment. I think it, you know, it's important that as is mentioned from multiple of others that we need a uniform voice and we need something that balances out the smaller end of the scale part of the issue that I hear.
Very, very often is that really small vessels don't feel like they are quite as represented as the large ones and their issues are vastly different. So yeah, I think for me it's trying to match some of the other voices that we've got in the field and hopefully.
Martin 17:39
Yeah.
Becki Jarvis 17:45
Get rid of some of this misinformation that is perpetuating.
Edward Baker 17:51
Great. Thank you, Magnus. Nice to see you.
Magnus Johnson 17:55
Yeah. Thanks, Ed. Yeah, I have not heard anything I disagree with, and there's a lot of familiar faces here that I've been seeing for the last 10/15/20 years. So I have just started up a Community interest company in Bridlington on the pier.
That's kind of risen from what used to be the holders fishing industry group, and the hope is that we sort of undertake Community Action that helps fishing in Bridlington and more brought along the off coast and more broadly, a lot of the issues I think the top ones that I've heard.
That I agree with here one I've speaking to bean speaking to George about recently sort of young fishermen getting young fishermen into the industry and supporting them, want to support any efforts that allow the inshore fleet to diversify. I've seen a lot of guys struggling locally. I think there'd be 10 boats in bridge. Would like to leave if somebody offered them the money.
At the moment, which is a bit sad, I'm actually get myself on to the national Fisheries Action Plan Group, which is the APPG thing, so hopefully I can learn something from you guys and feed that in to to that body and I basically I'm a marine biologist based at University of Hall in my other with my other hat on.
And as basically see every fishing boat as a data collection vehicle and I'd like to encourage more people in industry to collect data that they can use to defend themselves against the sort of things that Becky was talking about a minute ago. So interfering academic and happy, happy to help. I'd like to think of myself as a fisherman's friend.
Yeah.
Edward Baker 19:30
Thanks, Magnus. Magnus. Yeah, we appreciate all parts of the spectrum, Gemma.
I think she said she had a bit going on at home as well, so she might not be there at the moment. The skip to Richard.
Richard Stride 19:57
Yeah. Good evening, everyone. Richard Stride, I'm a under 10 static gear fisherman from Muddyford in Dorset, right on the boundary of Dorset and Hampshire. I've. I'm also secretary of the South Coast Fisherman's Council.
Which is a kind of umbrella group for fisherman's association in the in the Southern NifkaDistrict and also secretary of Muddyford and District Fisherman's Association and and a trustee of fishing into the Future.
And also for my sins, I've been a member of the Southern Africa Committee for 14 years or so, a couple more to do.
I as AI think that we ensure fishermen missed a trick by not getting behind nut fur in greater numbers. In its day, I think that was a missed opportunity and we certainly can't afford to miss.
This one I I don't think we're going to get another chance if we can't make this work. So what? What I would like to see is this group becoming a a voice and an organisation that's respected by.
Defra, the MMO, the Iffkas, NGOs, universities and the scientists, and one which is always invited to be in the room when fisheries are being discussed at a natural national.
National level. That's my hope, Ed.
Edward Baker 21:39
Thanks, Richard. So that's it. We've gone around the room unless unless Gemma's there.
I I know Gemma. She works for the Devon young Fishers. That's that's my brief introduction of her. Maybe she'll jump on later so.
This is obviously new to all of us. There is clearly like a a combined sentiment here that we need to we need a better voice and there are things that we need to tackle that we generally agree on like needing exit, you know, fishing opportunities, support for young.
Entrance etcetera, but basically making the inshore fisherman like survive.
The the next step for me is is. I think setting this up so that you actually have a coordinator of this group. It's going to take a lot of work. I haven't got the capacity to do it, and I don't necessarily want to do it and I'm not sure I'd be the right person anyway I.
I think the group should have an ethos similar to fishing into the future, which is by fishermen, for fishermen and and what I would like to do as next steps is is to look at appointing someone and paying them to coordinate this work.
Martin 22:52
Yeah.
Yeah.
Edward Baker 23:01
I I think the group also needs to consider whether or not it has a chair, and whether that chairperson like is rotated, and you could also end up with subgroups to discuss certain things. But yeah, for me, importantly is actually a.
Appointing someone to to corral people, build it, start those conversations with Whitehall, etcetera. One piece of feedback I had from Bashley who couldn't attend. So Bashley runs the South Devon and Channel Shellfish Association.
Her feedback on appointing someone to coordinate was that it shouldn't initially be paid, and there should be a volunteer, and the spokesperson should perhaps rotate depending on the topic that needs talking about.
But I I'd like to put it to the floor. Really. I think for me, the next step is is some sort of coordinating role. And the question is like, how do we create that coordinator? Yeah, my for me, the agenda is how can I help us get there. But beyond that, it's over to you. So.
If anyone wants to kick us off with some thoughts, that would be great, but.
Hello, Kim. Someone's just joined us.
Kim.
Kim, if you can hear us and you want to jump in and introduce yourself, great. If not, we'll we've just been around the table and yeah, if anyone wants to stick their hand up and kick us off with opinions on how to structure this group, that'd be great.
Kim Matthews 24:47
Yeah. Hi. I just want to listen at the moment.
Edward Baker 24:51
All right, so we're, yeah, we've been, we've been around the room and everyone's introduced themselves would, would you mind doing so?
Kim Matthews 24:53
Yeah.
I'm part-time fisherman. Got a little quarter boat in Shoreham in West Sussex and I'm on the Sussex Ifka.
Edward Baker 25:09
Well, thanks very much.
Kim Matthews 25:10
I attended the pool workshop.
Edward Baker 25:14
Excellent. All right. Sounds like you're on the same page and Richard's nodding, so maybe he recognises you does. Does anyone have an idea as to how this group could structure itself and initially like, would you like a yeah, go on, Jerry.
Kim Matthews 25:20
Yeah.
Jeremy Percy 25:28
Well, I'll have I'll say something for for a number of reasons. Firstly, I can't stay long for my sins. I'm a town councillor and we've got a meeting tonight. Secondly, yes, sort of been there and done that. And thirdly, really because no one else wanted to say anything.
I think the immense frustration I have is that we had two incredibly good workshops well over a year ago with a huge impetus, half the people there were fishing well as well as all the regulators and others and.
I think we have failed collectively to capitalise on that, to develop something along the lines of what Richard Stride was talking about, which is, you know, a proper representative body. I think the discussions about the, the sort of structure are going to be.
Fairly long winded, but I think my particular frustration is that with everything that's going on, I mean that the figures show that as I said right at the outset that 25% of our fleet insure fleet is gone in in 15 years. The direction of travel at the moment is absolutely.
Martin 26:36
Yeah.
Jeremy Percy 26:40
Unarguable and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that if something doesn't change and change quickly, then that that direction of travel will continue. I think also from my experience is that.
I think people underestimate the amount of work there is for someone representing the insurefleet to to operate effectively and I say that from from some some experience, I don't think rotating people.
Is particularly. You need a, whoever you you acquire, and I should say as I know, as as Ed knows, that there is money available rather frustratingly in some respects, there is very significant money potentially available.
To employ somebody and you need somebody that is going to be able to a hit the ground running B have the time and money. I don't agree with this voluntary business. You might guarantee it won't work. You need somebody who is switched on, able to absorb a lot of information because it's not just other sectors of the industry.
It's also, as we've been heard, NGOs, government officials, so on and so forth. You really have to be on top of the game to be able to argue effectively on behalf of your sector if you're going to make a difference. So what you need is a bum on a seat in front of Defra and the MMO. And that doesn't happen overnight, but.
You have to have. There is a time period where you build relationships. You guys wander into a death for office or an MMO office and think that you're going to get anywhere you need to build relationships, understand where people are coming from, etcetera. So it's.
I see no reason whatsoever why there should not be an effective representation for the insure sector. I think it's absolutely vital. I think people will underestimate the amount of work and efforts needs to go into it. And when you talk about, Oh well, we can decide on subjects. I mean, we had, as I said at the outset, 150 odd.
Priorities from the two original workshops and we did a top ten and you could take top five and that will keep someone busy for a great deal of time. You mentioned in your yourdraught agenda, Ed, about things like quota and access and bass and so on and so forth. There's there is no shortage of things that need addressing and need addressing urgently.
I think my other greatest fear is that we're fiddling while Rome burns, and if the money is available then we need to get our act together, get someone a bum on a seat with, you know, top number of priorities. Whatever you decide and start if not banging the table, then then really asserting the importance.
Of the inshore fleet to the authorities, NGOs and anybody else that will listen, and I do think the positive side, from what I see from still, although I'm retired, I'm still in touch with officials and others and.
I think there is the beginnings and it's happened only in the last, probably few months or year. Perhaps there is the beginnings of a recognition by officialdom and administrations around the UK that actually if someone isn't a bit more proactive, they will lose.
The insure sector, to all intents and purposes, and once you've lost it, you will never get it back. So I think great, everyone's very positive. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of suggestions etcetera. But I do think we need to get going. You or somebody needs to chase that money and we know where it's going to come from and get someone in post that can actually represent.
The interest to ensure sector on a daily basis. Thank you. Sorry to go on. But as you can imagine it's something close to my heart.
Edward Baker 30:26
Thanks, Jerry. I'm going to come to ash in just a SEC, but as Jerry's just alluded to it, I may as well say it. So as May Fairburn have earmarked money to pay someone to coordinate this work.
But that's if this group actually wants it, and we can get ourselves together and and create a asteering group, a board that guide that head person. But ash.
Ash 30:55
Hi. Yeah. Thank you. I think very well said, Jerry, if we were to create a role for coordinator for this, do people see it as? So let's say you've got your, you've got your coordinator for this network, so then other?
Small scale fisherman's associations that are already established go to that person. We've got an issue with XY and Z and they and that coordinator is the person to then take it to the relevant government body, relevant legislator, whatever that is.
Or is the role of the network coordinator to say OK yeah, you've got this issue. These are the people that you need to go to and speak to. And I think probably what my question is is if we were to build this ideal network coordinator for this job, what does their day-to-day look like and what are they going to be their roles and responsibilities?
Where where, where do those roles and responsibilities start and end? Sorry to add more questions into stuff.
Jeremy Percy 31:58
So start with a simple one.
Edward Baker 32:00
I yeah, I mean, there's so much to it, isn't it? And I would say that those are the like. The first question is, do we want a coordinator? Yes. OK. Like now we sit down and work out what it looks like. And for me, I imagine.
You you need you need a coordinator and you need the ability of the smaller organisations to represent themselves, so there's definitely a sense of flowing through, but also like working separately and getting advice. But there's just me jumping in, Richard.
Jeremy Percy 32:28
Sorry and if I could just only because I've sort of been there and done that. I think in answer to to the question really there's there's there's a number of elements, there is the sort of national interest, there are the big issues that you know and we can all we can all sit down and write half a dozen big issues right now it's not. It's not rocket science at all. There is a number of issues where.
Local groups can sort themselves out, but they sometimes often need advice on, you know, the politics with a small P of of it, it's that the role is supportive to those local groups and they feed in and there is back and forth. When I was running up for the phone, didn't stop the emails, didn't stop and a lot of it was advice and support, but generally speaking.
There's the big national issues. There's also the regional issues or the local issues that you provide. So it's a busy time, which is why you've got to get the right person in post. But as I say, and I'm going to shut up now that unless you get the right person in post without delay, we're wasting our time.
Thanks.
Edward Baker 33:27
Thanks, George. You're next then, Richard.
Martin 33:32
Yeah.
George Lamplough 33:32
Yeah. So when when you sent your e-mail out, it came out in bullet points. So I hope you don't mind. I've I've, I've. I've made notes.
So you know, first one is you know casual formal and definitely I think we should learn more towards a formal organisation regarding a spokesperson 100%. I do like what basically suggested regarding having.
If it's someone is if it's in someone's wheelhouse, maybe they should take the spokesperson's roll on. I think that's a very good idea. Nominated. Yes, 100%. You need to have someone there that's, you know, been selected by the group or, you know, everybody's their own spokesman and you're just coming out.
With alphabet soup all the time when when it comes to to a paid role, I'm unsure about that. I think that when when money becomes involved, it can be a blessing and a curse now.
I'll be happy to put across, you know, concerns of, you know, the people in my area. I wouldn't. I'm not sure how I'd feel about being paid for it to to be quite honest now, 100% definite. If you're going to get someone in to do the admin to do things like that, that is a paid position and it has to be a paid position and they deserve to be paid because I'll tell you what it it'll be a hell of a job.
Chairman yes, absolutely. And it's just got me voted in and put a time scale on it subgroups 100% and that that's sort of the end of my bullet points. So I'll, I'll, I'll hang with Mike up now. Cheers.
Edward Baker 35:11
That's bro. Thanks a lot, George, Richard.
Richard Stride 35:21
Sorry, lost my cursor there. Yes, thanks, Ed. Well, to start with, I think we all owe you some thanks, Ed for your efforts so far because whatever happens, the whole thing does need.
Someone to to to get things going. And I think you've done that very ably. What whatsurprised me talking to people about this and and the the initial discussions that we had. In fact everyone seems to be wanting to know well who runs it and.
What's it done so far, and I think it's a lot of people think that they, you know, they might be just getting onto a onto a bandwagon or a bus and and someone else is already driving. And what we're doing really is starting from scratch and it it will take a lot of.
Of work and I, it seems to me that we do need a coordinator and we do need to pay them because it's going to take time and I don't think any of us would have the time to do it and it also I think it'll be a role which changes with time.
Because at these early stages, it's going to be involved with putting together the but nuts and bolts of the organisation and and then it'll move on once we've, you know, got some policy direction of our own.
To actually sitting down with in discussions with it externally so.
I can see I I can see that we do need a formal structure of some kind because we do need to demonstrate that we have credible governance and that when we do, when we do put our two penny worth in that it's all.
It is, you know, it is backed up by some good grassroots governance. And so it is important for both, for our Members and for external bodies to see that that, that, that works well. And like I said, I'm surprised at how.
A lot of people perceive organisations as being almost a personality cult of the person who's who's most visible, and I think we need to try to dispel, to dispel that, that notion, if we can.
Edward Baker 37:44
Thanks, Richard. I think it's some. Yeah, there's some really good points there, AED. And then Magnus.
Richard Stride 37:45
Put my hand down.
Martin 37:51
Yes.
Adrian Bartlett 37:54
Yeah, my my thoughts are the same. Really. You know, over the years I've sat on so many different boards. You know, I've obviously I've just stood down from fishing into the future as vice chair and I know that structure works throughout the whole of the UK.
I know they're going for a bit of a restructure now, but that model does tend to work, but the person, whoever we bring in one the group's got to be trusted by them and they've got to trust them. I don't think we can get somebody sorry, Magnus. From academia, I think it's got to come from the industry.
A little bit and be driven by the industry. If the steering groups there agree, and I think it's got to be a paid role because this is not a small undertaking whatsoever and voluntary work will only stretch so far.
But I think, yeah, George, you're right. I think, you know, we need a chair. We need a vice chair. We need somebody to take the bit of pressure away from whoever steers this little bit of Jerry's importance, do we? You know, there's how many people's on this call out of 150 invites.
Do we look internally, do we look externally for somebody to run this or within this group do we put somebody interim that can work alongside Ed, whether that little bit of funding to just to try to get started?
Martin 39:16
Yeah.
Adrian Bartlett 39:23
Rather sooner than later and waiting for a candidate to come in, so there's quite a bit bit to think about, but I think whoever.
I think it's so important you have that right person to one. Listen to, not scared to ask and not scared to make a bit of a noise in the right rooms, you know, and then obviously full transparency.
Of to and from to feedback to the group. But I think Jerry's quite right. I think you know, since those workshops we've lagged a year and I think, you know, we can have meetings like this and it's the first one. But I think we need to move sooner rather than later to start getting that voice across.
OK. Thank you. Thanks, Ed.
Edward Baker 40:08
Thanks Heidi Magnus.
Magnus Johnson 40:11
Yeah, you definitely don't need an interfering academic as a leader. I think the the fit for slogan of by fishermen for fishermen is something to to, to emulate, but.
It would be interesting to know if Esme Fairburn would fund the development of the organisation to sort of, because it it, I'm going to be teaching people to suck eggs around the table here, but it takes a lot of work just to get these things set up, you know, and and get a board in place and have all the rights, the sort of paperwork and all.
But that's really important because you can't raise funding unless you've got a proper structure in place, and so people won't pay you unless you are going concerned with accounts with the regular sort of audits and all rest of it. So all that stuff needs to be thought about, and that needs somebody who's good at administration and you kind of need it.
An animal. It's good at admin and also good at communicating with people. I think Ashley's point about local people feeding into a national board is a is a good one as well. So I'm I'mbasically fully supportive of what Jeremy and Adrian have have said.
One thing I think would be really good it's we've got one crewman here, you know, and it would be good to see more crew coming to be represented to come attend these sorts of things and and bringing people on to represent the industry in the future and also you know, thinking about their own.
Their own careers, so it'd be. And it's it's always difficult to get it crew from. From where I sit, but it'd be really good to see, see more of them, yeah.
Thank you.
Edward Baker 41:51
Thanks. Madness. So, yeah, some clarity on the funding. I agree the organ an organisation needs like a legal structure, but the initial step doesn't necessarily need it because another organisation.
Could apply for the funding and then post that person.
And that's so the next like if there's an agreement that we need to pay someone, the next step for me from this is to take a small steering group for a conversation with, as May Fairburn, to discuss how we actually do it. Gary.
Jeremy Percy 42:32
Yeah, very briefly. I'm huge. Apologies, I'm really into this, but I have to go. I've got another meeting very shortly. Yeah. Happy to be on the steering group. I still agree with especially aid. And Richard and ash. I never agree with Magnus, but we learn each other too long for that.
I'll see you at the APBG next week. So as I say, and I don't want to understand my frustrations, I think that that we know, Ed, that the money is potentially there. Yes, we need to structure, we need a steering group just to figure that out. How we do it. I do think if we wait to get every, every.
Everything in order. It'll be too late. I think we we should get a structure in place and interim money anyway. With a, with a chair and some some bodies on board. Get the funding set up, advertise for somebody and I I cannot stress enough how much you need to.
Have some.
Sort of. Continuity in the representative face. It shouldn't be, you know, just an icon. But you shouldn't underestimate how much work someone has to do to keep on top of everything when they're talking to Defra and the MMO and NGOs and everybody else. So I suppose my my message is don't delay and it's all there.
Everything, all the all the bits are in place. We just need to collectively hear as as as has been said. Was it 16 out of 150 I think speaks volumes and that's when you know we've got a bit of enthusiasm to start with it. It won't take long before people fall off. But I think all the pits are in place.
Great to have these meetings, but we need to get our finger out and get going. But as I say, apologies again because I do have to go, but great to see everyone and thanks for thanks for being here. Cheers. Bye.
Edward Baker 44:19
Thanks, Jerry. Appreciate it.
So it feels fairly unanimous that we need to, we need to put someone in place, but clearly you need a bit of structure around that person. The other thing that's bothering me is the I don't know, five or six people that have emailed apologies and want to know outcomes of meet of this meeting.
How how you include them in the conversation? But you know my suggestion next would be do we want to stick hands up and volunteer for that initial steering group so that we can actually have a committed handful of people that are willing to.
Kind of jointly write the job description, etcetera. Determine how you actually put someone in place. We already have a bit of a steering group and the way we've worked so far is that we have we have had a few meetings just to get to this point. I've taken notes. I've sent them round and people have fed back by e-mail and we're working I think.
But well, in a very loose fashion for something that is probably very hard to pull together when you're dealing with what you know, 10s of people. So I guess my proposal would be next step. Stick hands up for a committed steering group and also write out by e-mail.
For volunteers to that steering group and then hold, then, then it's a really short meeting, probably with Edna to talk about the funding, but or I'm obviously going to miss stuff and I get like just quickly for me, the reason for wanting to do this, I think Richard summed it up really well.
If we are going to have that seat at the table with Defra, then you need to be able to demonstrate that good governance and there's no way you can do it without, in my mind, without paying someone to be committed.
Umm.
So I don't know what do you think of trying to nominate some steering group members. Maybe you could just stick Aiden.
Adrian Bartlett 46:23
Yeah, well, in my stage of life, I'm slimming down my work. So if everything everybody's over, I'll gladly go on that steering group head and see where we can go with it.
Edward Baker 46:37
Thank you, Andy.
Andy Read 46:42
I'm taking so sorry, I'm just picking it a step back. You mentioned sort of these two different tasks and I wonder if this there's a. There's a, there's an interim job here for someone to set things up on a short term contract with the aim of creating a job description and an organisation that then advertises for a.
Martin 47:00
Hmm.
Andy Read 47:00
An employee afterwards and also I mean Jerry will will tell you not for started off well because it had grants and then when the grant money run out the income disappeared and you know it become harder and harder to do things is to how to leverage what money is available from SB Fairburn.
To get other funds from other places on top of it. So if you like, there's almost like two jobs there. There's one to set it up and then hand over. Might be the same person, might not, and then hand over when when the organisation is ready to sort of be born and and start its job. Does that make sense?
Martin 47:33
Awesome.
Edward Baker 47:35
Yeah, it does, and it's definitely worth worth considering.
Andy Read 47:40
And if I don't know what as as if, as if Ben is giving like 50,000, if you can go along to the Coastal Fund and say, look, you can give us matched funding for this three-year plan, we've got a business plan, we've got all these organisations wanting to support us, that 50,000 might turn into 150,000 or whatever in round two.
Edward Baker 48:02
Thanks. I I sort of imagined that that first step is that bit of money from Esme, and I've got no idea how much it is. And then that person does set up just saying Gemma's question there. Is it a CIC like? I don't think you decide that until you've got someone to coordinate that decision.
Martin.
Martin 48:23
Yeah, I think what we need is a coalition of the willing. There's far too much work to be done for one person.
I know the NFFR is struggling with their body of work that they've got on, so if we put this in the hands of one person, we're doomed to fail. We need a coalition of people that will work together with this amount of work.
I would like to go forward and be on the steering committee as well.
Edward Baker 48:54
Thank you, Martin. And I totally agree. And I think Ash said it as well in the chat you youneed you need regional reps that feed in. There's definitely not one person. There's no way one person can cope, George.
George Lamplough 49:09
Yeah, I I just wanted to say I'm. I'm not sure you know what I can contribute. But you know, if just ask me. I'm I'm more than happy to tell if you agree. For what have you just, you know, just just an offer there if you need a hand on whatever I can do I will do.
Martin 49:11
Yeah.
Edward Baker 49:26
Awesome. Thank you. And I think just, you know, just tipping in the way we've worked so far we've had, it's been a loose steering group and there's been emails out and everyone has had the opportunity to kind of join and contribute. And for me that's that's always got to be the ethos as much as you can have a steering group, everyone's got to know what?
Martin 49:40
Yeah.
Edward Baker 49:45
They say and like have the chance to input on a decision would be one of my calls.
Let's just see our.
Thanks, Gemma. Come on.
Martin 50:07
Yeah.
Carl Davies 50:07
Yeah. Firstly, apologies. I'm going to have to leave in a minute. I'm going to a fisherman's friends concert, which is quite apt, I suppose. I'm. I'm happy to be on a steering group, but I am a full time fisherman. Proper, yeah.
So yeah, I have various, well, a couple of areas of expertise, I suppose so. So you could pull upon them. Science side of it and and wind farms. So yeah, I'd be happy to help, but.
Obviously there's limitations to to what I can do.
Edward Baker 50:46
Yeah, understood. No worries.
None.
I do ash. I want to talk to support my counsellor about something. To yeah. No, completely understood, Richard.
Richard Stride 51:02
Yeah, Ditto. I'm a bit out of the stretch, but I'm quite happy and I would be honoured to be honest steering committee. And I think we should grab Ash and George with hoops of steel.
Martin 51:07
Nothing.
Edward Baker 51:14
I agree, and in my mind, Richard, there was no way you were getting out of not being on the steering group. Sorry.
Martin 51:17
And.
Richard Stride 51:20
OK.
Edward Baker 51:23
So Simon's just joined and Magnus is typing.
Cool. Understood. So.
Martin 51:34
It's.
Edward Baker 51:36
My next job then is obviously to write this up and e-mail it round, but also to convene a meeting for that steering group, like soon Ish. And as some of you have put your hands up, it would be nice to. I think it's practical to try and look at a date now. So we're actually movingforward.
Or if not an actual date, maybe a couple of dates that you can go away and think of times of day, etcetera.
Martin 51:52
Yeah.
Edward Baker 51:59
Martin.
Martin 52:02
Yeah, I can do any date because we both tied up. We know MCA and I'm full time on this now.
So any day I'll do any meeting any day.
Edward Baker 52:09
Bro.
Thank you.
George.
George Lamplough 52:18
Yeah. So any day as long as you know, after about 5:00 any day.
Edward Baker 52:25
Cool. All right there, so that there's AI mean. So how? How has anyone got days they can't do. And John, you've got your hand up.
John Balls 52:34
Yes, apologies. Once again, I don't know what's up with the camera, but yeah, I'll be happy to come on the steering group, but through one or two commitments with the hospital, you know, I can't guarantee that I'm going to be at the beck and call if you like without being too pedantic.
So yes, I'll be prepared to be on the staring group.
Edward Baker 52:55
Thank you. It makes sense. And to me like the steering group is then the beginnings of this like the the wider kind of reps feeding in and obviously people drop in and out and can't always do it. I think we're all well aware of those kind of commitments.
And I suppose the ask would be if you've got someone that could stand in for you, that's always good because part of this is about extending the network as well, Richard.
Richard Stride 53:23
Yeah, just to say that next week is a bit busy for me Tuesday and Thursday. So I've got evening meetings and like George, I prefer evenings. 5:00 is a great time or possibly four at the push at the push.
Martin 53:34
Or the.
Edward Baker 53:37
Yeah, I understood. And I think that seems to work for many.
Martin 53:42
And.
Edward Baker 53:43
I know you said you were super busy, but you have sort of been volunteered as well. How would you feel about days of the week times or is it very fishing dependent?
Don't know if you heard me.
So actually, if you did hear me, stick your hand up and I'll go to Martin.
Ash 54:18
Oh, sorry, what did you just ask me something? I'm sorry. The heater just packed up in the wheelhouse that took my that took my attention away. Sorry. Carry on. What did you say?
Edward Baker 54:19
Yeah. Yeah, sorry so.
I mean.
Yeah, you've sort of you've sort of been volunteered to to be on the steering group, although even yeah, you know, you admit that you haven't got as much time if you're willing to drop in and out of it. Is there a time day that would suit in the next day, 10 days?
Ash 54:36
Aye.
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I'll try and just make the time to be that. I don't know where I'm going to be one day to the next, but yeah, evenings are normally good.
Edward Baker 54:50
Yeah, no.
That's that's all good. Thank you, Martin.
Martin 54:59
Yeah, I think it's going to need a lot of boots on the ground talking to actual fishermen on the coast. So I'm I'm prepared to have a look around the southeast corner and visit a few ports and this and the other and the other thing as well, we're going to have a lobby, another lobby day and a month in Parliament.
So we're going to try to get as many as we.
I'm.
Edward Baker 55:27
You faded out a little bit there, Martin, but I completely agree. A lot of this work will probably be done on the ground in conversation and bringing people along.
Martin 55:30
Yes.
Edward Baker 55:40
Shh.
Becky's offering her support. Thank you. All right. So, Richard, what did you say about next week?
Martin 55:46
Yeah.
Yeah.
Richard Stride 55:52
Tuesday and Thursday. I'm busy. Yeah, yeah.
Edward Baker 55:55
Completely out. OK, cool. In which case.
Martin 55:58
No.
Edward Baker 56:01
Uh.
Martin 56:03
Mm-hmm.
Edward Baker 56:05
I don't know when you know Wednesday 3rd at 5:00.
Martin 56:11
Yeah.
Yeah.
Edward Baker 56:15
I'm going to go for it, and if anyone's really saying no.
And what I'll do?
Martin 56:21
Yeah.
Edward Baker 56:23
This will government to everyone. I guess that was invited so that they know and if they want to take part, they can join and we'll see. But that that is then going to be a very focused discussion on structure and funding. So we've got half an hour left.
We may as well push on if that's alright. The other two things I had on there were.
What do you want to tackle and how do we gain support so Jerry has said it a couple of times and we've all kind of that. You know, there are lots of things that we could tackle and we just need to get on and create. So I'm not. I'm not convinced that like choosing something to tackle now is the is the right next step.
And equally like going out there and drumming up extra support is important. But I again, I don't know if it's something we need. We need to discuss. It's really a plea.
Martin 57:12
I'm.
Yeah.
Edward Baker 57:21
I mean, for people to do so.
Well, my suggestion is there. There is some communications that go out after this meeting, perhaps another phishing news article, certainly some social media that we can all share and perhaps that's the key thing is that after every meeting there's like a joint social media message that we can all like post on.
Our own groups send out to our perhaps I don't know that to me, off the cuff like a few lines of what happened that can be shared, and perhaps perhaps that's just in my meeting note that then can be copy and pasted.
Martin 57:56
It called.
Yeah.
Edward Baker 57:58
AED.
Martin 58:00
Mm-hmm.
Adrian Bartlett 58:01
Yeah. Do you think it's obviously the third is only a short few days away to get to that steering group and probably get that little bit of structure in before we go, yeah, put some communication out, but do we need a central communication point, do we need an Instagram?
Or do we need Facebook? Do we need just one item that we can post out and everybody pulling onto that because that could be a natural way of highlighting it to people, social networks to come and join us and link into the home page of the website.
It could be a quicker way than wandering around the ports and trying mines. Yeah, but I think when we go to the ports, we want to have a bit of structure to go to the ports and meet people and to try to try to communicate it that way through a little bit more like social media. Ish.
Martin 58:39
Yeah.
Adrian Bartlett 58:53
To draw people to that web page like you know.
Edward Baker 58:57
Like the idea AD ash.
Martin 59:00
Yeah.
Ash 59:02
Yeah, I was just going to feed off the back of that and say that if if you do want people to talk about what's going on here and what we're doing, then those columns need to be really clearand it needs to come from a centralised points point. So we're speaking with one message, maybe rather than multiple.
People's interpretations of what's happening and what the next steps are, so just clear communication. If people are using their personal channels to communicate what's happening, just you know one sentence to couple of couple of sentences. Just say.
If we're going to talk about it, this is what we talk about and this use, you know, this language.
Edward Baker 59:41
Yeah, I agree on that. Yeah, makes total sense.
How you actually corral that, I think is slightly challenging and I guess that's the point of having a coordinator. But yeah, George.
George Lamplough 59:54
All I was gonna say is it, it sounds like a role that might need to come up. Then is sort of a well, it's a a social media coordinator or something like that, a communications officer.
Edward Baker 1:00:05
You're more frozen.
George Lamplough 1:00:07
Oh, you say I was frozen.
Edward Baker 1:00:10
I I maybe I froze.
George Lamplough 1:00:12
Oh, OK. No, I'll just sign that. I think there's there's certainly an advantage in having, you know, an assigned communications officer. And I'm, I'm, I'm looking at the bottom of the screen and I know someone who's who's really, really good. It's getting in touch with people when she's not hanging off the end of a cigarette.
And you know, I'm I'm I'm sure we all like to nominate folks. You know. Ashley is. Is this something that you think you might be good at?
Martin 1:00:37
And.
George Lamplough 1:00:41
Yeah.
JEMMA JEWKES 1:00:42
Like I work with Ashton like she's like, she is amazing and she's wonderful and she does so much. But I'm like, actually someone else needs to do some bloody work because ash does so much.
George Lamplough 1:00:42
Yeah.
Ash 1:00:54
I've been supporting women nice.
George Lamplough 1:00:57
No, I'll tell you what, Gemma, you are, you are 100% correct. I mean, you just look to the person who's the absolute best and sometimes you have to be more understanding of the fact that they do have these obligations. So sorry to put you on the spot, ash.
JEMMA JEWKES 1:00:57
Yeah.
And Melanie? Yeah. No, it's all right. And Mel's offered in the chat. So Mel's very kindly offered in to to do that.
Ash 1:01:13
Yes.
George Lamplough 1:01:17
Sorry, Mel, I haven't got the chat up so I do apologise.
Ash 1:01:20
I love. I love Mel. Thank you, chair boss.
JEMMA JEWKES 1:01:22
Sorry, I had loads of people here looking at my puppies, so that's why the the camera and the everything's been off because it was like so much talk in the background. But I've been listening to you guys and try not to disturb you with people talking about puppies, but yeah, it's all great. But yeah, ash ash is amazing. But that's also her downfall.
Yeah.
Edward Baker 1:01:42
Nice one. Thanks for stepping in, Gemma. And yeah, I totally get it. It's it's tough like that. Hey, which I guess again, it's like the sooner we actually get someone that is paid to do it. And one of these, one of these things, their skill set has to be that that communication.
JEMMA JEWKES 1:01:59
It's a real it's a real key skill set and I just say so I couldn't talk earlier. I couldn't say earlier, but this is actually what I do for the Charter boat network. So I run a national network of charter boat skippers. And so yeah, I can sort of support from have that role into the inshore fisheries.
Edward Baker 1:01:59
None.
JEMMA JEWKES 1:02:16
And there's somebody on this group who I would think it would be absolutely amazing at this job, but I'm not going to say who and it's it's not me, by the way. And there's and we're Devin Young Fisher. So we're happy to support and support him with that. And for them, I set at the CIC and obviously there's pros and cons to CIC.
Charities associations. There is some money about for associations at the moment. You probably know about that anyway, but yeah, I'm really happy to help with that sort of governance side and to share all the paperwork you need and everything, you can just copy everything that I've got to make it easy and simple and whoever.
If it does that, I can just give it to the mall.
Edward Baker 1:02:59
That's Brill. Thank you.
Yeah, I mean.
JEMMA JEWKES 1:03:02
And just for everyone on here that doesn't know me, I'm really, really sorry, but I've we've got a commercial fishing business charter fishing business, I run the Charter skipping network for angling trust and also I'm CEO of Deb and Young Fisher. So we're supporting young people into fishing. I know I've met George and a lot of you and.
Yeah, part of women in fisheries, part of fishing, into the futures. So sorry, guys for sort of very randomly coming in last minute.
Edward Baker 1:03:28
No worries. Thanks, Gemma.
Like is it. Does anyone want to talk about anything else? Am I missing anything? Do we have enough of a way forward?
Martin 1:03:44
Aye.
Edward Baker 1:03:44
Kim, sorry not Kim, is it? It says Kim on the screen.
Kim Matthews 1:03:48
Yeah, it's it. Yeah.
Yeah, it's me, Kim.
Edward Baker 1:03:52
Yeah, OK, cool.
Martin 1:03:54
Yeah.
Kim Matthews 1:03:55
Yeah, I had a weird feeling last week and I not had this feeling before I went to a talk about Ocean and David Attenborough and got the usual crap, you know?
Edward Baker 1:04:07
Yeah.
Kim Matthews 1:04:09
Fishing trawling's bad thereby fishermen, fishermen are bad, you know, and totally ****** *** with that. Then somebody we had to shoot inside because it was blowing out from the north.
And so the one of the local fishermen had his gill Nets right up the beach and a couple of swimmers swam out to them and pulled them up the beach.
Because fishermen are bad, you know, they're ****** the sea and all that sort of stuff. And then the weirdest thing was on ifka. They put out a thing about a fixed engine by law, that you, you can't destroy Nets, you can't move them.
Edward Baker 1:04:42
Yeah.
Kim Matthews 1:04:54
They're legally there. That's the first time I've seen a supportive view back in inshore fishermen from the ifka and I think they realised, I mean in.
When you look at the figures, we've lost half our fleet in the last 15 years and it's to the point where the infrastructure and the youngsters coming in aren't there and it will collapse. It's ait's a tipping point now and give it another five years and it'll go down the pan completely.
So I think they realised that they've overdone the precautionary element and how about the insure one? Because we're too easy to get AT and I've got a feeling there's there is a change of mood that the insure fleet doesn't need protecting.
The ironic thing is that David Attenborough and that lot they were, they say they want the small scale artisan fisherman inside to be looked after because we're not damaging the environment and.
In a way I I would suggest going to them. I know it sounds awful to, you know, try and go to an NGO, but they got a lot of power. They got a lot of money and and as May Fairburn fund them.
As well, and there must be common ground there that we we highlight the loss of the inshore fleet. So I I you know I would strangely optimistic when I saw that that's the first time I've seen an attack to protect fishermen.
Martin 1:06:26
Aye.
Kim Matthews 1:06:33
On the insurer side, the other thing is I do have a little bit of expertise on setting up. Cooperatives are helped by a Community Bureau brewery and and pubs. So I do know about governance and.
Particularly with the cooperative cooperative format. So anybody wants to know about that, you get stuck on something, come back to me about governance. Thanks.
Edward Baker 1:07:00
Thanks very much, Kim. That reminds me, I Carl's comment about a film to show the other side of ocean kind of rung true with me. And I don't want to get too far ahead, but if.
Kim Matthews 1:07:03
Hey.
Yeah.
At.
Edward Baker 1:07:15
And when this group is functioning and has a bank account, etcetera to Commission, something that comes from the insure fleet entirely and showcases them would be a great way of saying, yeah, we're here so and also what you said about the the government starting to think about the insure.
Kim Matthews 1:07:16
Yeah.
The.
Edward Baker 1:07:35
It's obvious that the EU are starting to go that way, and a couple of conversations I've had with guys in the MMO and Defra recently makes me think the same is that the needle is starting to shift towards the insure and like really our time is now to capitalise on that as much as possible.
Martin, Nicola. George.
Martin 1:07:57
Yes, firstly, can I say the NGOs are our mates.
There's not when we we're not too far off being aligned with them, we should Greenpeace. Blue marine. I don't know much about Oceana, but we're not too far distant from them, so we need. We've got so much power if we join up with the NGOs.
And this network, it'd be incredibly powerful lobby.
And the old adage that they're against us is a lie that is basically seeded by the NFFO.
To stop us succeeding.
So I think it's very important. I'm going to back up Kim Matthews there. We do need to make strong links with NGOs if we're going to win this.
And the second thing as well, I'd like to bring up is subgroups. I think it's going to be very important that we have regional subgroups and probably demersal and plagic subgroups.
Edward Baker 1:09:07
OK. Thanks, Nicola. You put your hand down.
Martin 1:09:11
Yeah.
Nicola White 1:09:13
I Juliet SW FPO. She has been. She's got something in the tubes to do with a which has been a long time with a production company that hasn't come to any fruition yet. So I didn't want to jump the gun on her behalf. But.
Martin 1:09:15
Yeah.
Nicola White 1:09:31
As it was, it's going to be coming out prior to Ocean but and she doesn't want it to look like a sour grapes type of effort. But Juliet has got quite a few things in the tube with that. I don't know the details yet, so.
Don't do work that she may already have done, because it might save you some work.
Edward Baker 1:09:52
Thanks. Interesting, George.
Nicola White 1:09:52
S.
George Lamplough 1:09:57
One of the things regarding any sort of film that I'll caution against is we would have to avoid the whole insure good offshore bad sort of narrative. We we all do exist in this same of the same spheres and quite frankly a lot of the the insure.
In shore work, it piggybacks off the work of the offshore guys. I mean the the infrastructure is not input been put in place for us smaller operators that the offshore guys are absolutely essential to what we do as Potters, we need trawlers for bait. You know that we are all interconnected. So and again, you know, going on with that.
I would definitely. So we need to be cautious regarding Eng OS. I'm not saying they're all good. I'm not saying they're all bad, but I think it would have to be a very, very, very much case by case, even individual by individual sort of conversation to be had there.
Rather than sort of opening up any sort of floodgates to the world anyway, that's my my mytwo cents on that one.
Edward Baker 1:11:03
Thanks. I've I think it's.
JEMMA JEWKES 1:11:04
So all the fishermen in the room are nodding to agree with you there, George. So there's me and Chris. Nick Ash, you have to be really so so careful.
Edward Baker 1:11:08
Not.
9.
Oh wait.
Sorry Gemma. So I was just going to say when we first met like in February this year to begin this conversation, it was the conversation was partially completely derailed by the potential involvement of an NGO.
So I'm yeah, I and I guess it goes back to the thing I said at the beginning by fishermen for fishermen, I think it's probably where we where we stick with. I'm not a fisherman, but I I do represent them. I think you know they're obviously lines I I'm going to go Martin. I'll come back to you in a SEC. But we've got some new.
Hands that haven't spoken for a while AD then John.
Martin 1:11:57
Yeah.
Adrian Bartlett 1:11:57
Yeah, it is difficult with the NGOs and one thing they got and we haven't got, they got shed loads of money so soon as you kind of put something a little bit wrong, they're going to be jumping down our throats with a vengeance.
It's going to be very difficult to work with them, obviously with my involvement for CROCKY 8 or 10 years of fishing into the future, we've been avoiding that and we avoid it for a reason because it is for fishermen, from fishermen.
And at the end of the day, whatever committee comes out of this whatever steering group comes out of this, it is got to be steered in the right direction because it's so difficult. Yes, I, you know, like Martin's views is.
You know they're here, but we've got to deal with them correctly and we've got to answer them correctly, but as soon as you unfortunately step over that line, they got more money that we can even imagine to try to fight them off in, in any film or.
You know we can employ David and Brewer to put on a film. You know, they can. So we've got to be really, really careful. And basically my point is, is when we get this steering group going next week, let the steering group steer this insure network it's it's, you know, it's.
Going to be a national thing and it is going to be, you know, hopefully a long road, but with all the support and help around the UK, no doubt we can get this this up and running. So my point is is yes.
Martin 1:13:37
Play song.
Adrian Bartlett 1:13:41
Let's keep the NGOs close, but arms length and if, if the initial network steering group don't want it, it doesn't happen because it collapsed straight away and we need those fishermen to steer this group more than more than anybody else. So that's my views on that. Thank you.
Yeah.
Edward Baker 1:13:58
Thanks AD John.
John Balls 1:14:01
Yeah, I quite agree with what Aiden has just now said. You know, these people are very good, but you do have to keep my arm's length. By all means. Let's get the steering committee organised first. Then we can drive forward with that.
See what Juliet come up with in relation to the southwest?
What you, I mean, I see it here on the North Coast of Devon at the moment. That's very, very hard for an insure being a pot on myself. I cannot operate through the winter time. I've tried at 12 months of the year down here. We just get absolutely hammered by heavy.
Martin 1:14:39
Yeah.
John Balls 1:14:41
See coming off the Atlantic and you end up the days you can get to see. There's usually too much swell and you're sorting gear out anyway. The so-called management over the years have crippled the industry. We have now got to try and get away from that situation and get something given.
And back to us. And that's an area where we need to drive forward on diversification. What would I do as a Potter in North Devon, I I really cannot see a product. What I could go and catch. The welks are getting thinner and thinner on the ground. There's only a handful of boats working them now anyway.
And that's go back to the same old story. There is just too much gear on the ground trying to catch a handful of product, whether that be welks, whether that be lobsters, brown crab, the ground has just been hammered so hard by incompetent management in the past.
Where before people would pop so many months a year, then go on to Whitefish, net and lining, you know, options, them options have got to be 100% given back to the people. But how you bring youngsters into this industry when there's no, if you like, I'll use.
The word loosely guaranteed money in the pot to actually come. That's why people have gone ashore. I mean, in the 20 years I've been in the Southwest, there was eight boats in the harbour where I worked. The neighbours all full time and there's.
There's three of us now who are all part time I class myself as a full time fisherman, but actually my pension. Now my private pension gives me a really very good income and that makes me sad because my private income, my private pension.
Was formed through the fishery through the 70s and 80s and then there was a lot of money as soon as their management measures started to raise their ugly head through people like Defra. That was math then.
And the MMO and company that is a struggle. What we've now got to try and reverse and now getting back to our group, we have to have enforcers on board. Simon Ward put that e-mail out the other night saying he wants to step away. You have nothing to do with it. Well, if you don't mind me saying.
And so the ifgas are our first line of informers in enforcers. So therefore we have to work with them whether we like it or not. We can't strike, try and make a difference without the input. So we have to have the ifgas on board.
Martin 1:17:23
Play song.
John Balls 1:17:27
Unless somebody's got some other idea. But I think to move forward, we start off with the Committee of bodies, local bodies in each area and then move on from there. But I'll come on board with the steering group, but I certainly don't want no role as a chairman because I ain't got the time.
To achieve that. Thank you.
Edward Baker 1:17:50
Thanks very much, John Martin. And then if there's yeah, go on, Martin. And then if I can close this before of 630, I will.
Martin 1:18:00
Yeah. Well, I'd like to come back to Georgia with the NGO thing and the other fishermen I've been a fisherman virtually all my life and the two occasions have helped me. They've helped me basically fend off industrial fly shooting and get the regulations changed. So they are, they will help you.
It's a bit of a fallacy that they're going to come going to want to try and get rid of you. You can't. What we don't want to be is NGO stooges. We're not going to be an NGO stooge for sure. We're fishermen and that's important, but we can use their knowledge and and their expertise to help us camp.
Fine.
Edward Baker 1:18:41
Thanks, Martin. So yeah, I mean, it's an interesting debate and I'm sure it's going to raise its head multiple times. I guess for me at the moment, a few people have said it. It's all about coming like start at the beginning, get a bit of a committee together and and and take it from there. And we can do a lot I think without.
Needing to reach out to the Ndos in the first instance. Simon, good evening.
Martin 1:19:07
Yeah.
simonbywater1968 1:19:08
Yeah. Good evening. The apologies for being too late. I just couldn't get back from Harwich in time. I just over. Yeah, obviously I've just caught up in the middle of the meet. And so I'm just sort of piercing bits together. Steering group. Yeah, obviously. I'll be happy to be involved with that. I think you talked about next Wednesday, 4 or a little bit late and maybe I'll I can.
Edward Baker 1:19:12
Yeah, no worries.
simonbywater1968 1:19:27
Chat with you about that later. Maybe it five was that 55 is fine. Yeah, that's absolutely fine. Yeah, OK, I'll. I'll have to just catch up with you later, Ed, to catch up on everything that's been said.
Edward Baker 1:19:31
Yeah.
So.
Yeah, no worries. I mean, do you want to just quickly like, I mean most a lot of people will know you, but everyone else has gone around the room and introduced themselves. So you know, you may as well have the stage for a moment or two.
simonbywater1968 1:19:52
Yeah. OK. Then I think most of you know me anyway. Name is Simon by water. Crab lobster, fisherman from Cromer in Norfolk, CEO for Reef CIC. Renaissance E Anglian Fisheries and training manager for Eastern Sea Fish Training Association, which is part of what I was doing today. That's why it's been away for all day.
Just seem to be away a lot at the moment and also vice chairman of our local North Norfolk Fisherman's Society and yeah and I know it balls really well because it used to be live here in Cromer so it's nice. Nice to hear it. Yeah, it balls, John balls. Nice to hedge on still. Yeah. It's been a long day but.
Martin 1:20:12
Yeah.
Yeah.
Edward Baker 1:20:26
John.
John Balls 1:20:27
John, thank you very much. I was speaking. I was speaking to your brother on the phone the other night, David, when he was down here with Stephen.
simonbywater1968 1:20:35
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you quite enjoyed that interesting trip getting there, but I guess we're not going about that now, so yeah, definitely, definitely happy to be involved, you know, in any way possible to help out. And yeah, Ed, we can always have a chat later on.
John Balls 1:20:42
No.
simonbywater1968 1:20:52
OK, thanks. Thanks very much everyone.
Edward Baker 1:20:52
No. Brill.
All right. I will close it there. Thanks very much for your time. All the best and I'll be in touch. There'll be a meeting invite. I'll send it tomorrow. Notes from this meeting, I hope, will be tomorrow. There will be tomorrow and we'll see you all soon.
Thank you. Good night.
Richard Stride 1:21:13
Yeah. Thanks, Ed. Thanks, everyone. Cheers all the best.
George Lamplough 1:21:14
Lovely cheers. Now bye bye.
Ash 1:21:18
Dial.
simonbywater1968 1:21:18
Thanks. Bye bye. Talk to you soon. Talk to you soon, Ed.
JEMMA JEWKES 1:21:20
Hi.
Edward Baker 1:21:22
All right.
Kim Matthews 1:21:22
Bye.
simonbywater1968 1:21:24
Mike.
Edward Baker stopped transcription